Trigger settings for timeline editor

Regency lion

Regency lion

Member
would it be possible for someone to explain the slider bar used for the trigger press in a more simplified way, because thats where i get somewhat confused, why start with a slight press then go to a full press why not straight to full, do i need to tell the rune to release the trigger or is this automatic if rune is on a loop,i can see whats being done, i just dont understand why, the reason i ask is with the macro i relied on using other peoples' macros but i liked to make runes and contribute to the library when up and running. (BTW ups just delivered my berserker while i am writing this post i said i wont open it untill it's my birthday that is going to be so hard)
 
bonefisher

bonefisher

Well-Known Member
Regency lion said:
would it be possible for someone to explain the slider bar used for the trigger press in a more simplified way, because thats where i get somewhat confused, why start with a slight press then go to a full press why not straight to full, do i need to tell the rune to release the trigger or is this automatic if rune is on a loop,i can see whats being done, i just dont understand why, the reason i ask is with the macro i relied on using other peoples' macros but i liked to make runes and contribute to the library when up and running. (BTW ups just delivered my berserker while i am writing this post i said i wont open it untill it's my birthday that is going to be so hard)
Click to expand...
By default the rune is on the loop and the default rune when drawn is at full pulled which is fine if you use on a tac button.....if your going to use on right trigger you want to release the full pulled trigger in the rune by sliding the bar all the way left on each end of the rune because you are doing the pulling when applying the right trigger on the controller....you would get a rapid fire going off automatic if you didn't do this! On the rune itself the space from 0 to .1 is the released trigger and from .1 to .2 is the pulled trigger and by default which you don't even have to look is on a loop which it makes it easy to save and go on to the next build......
 
odingalt

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Skinny end of the bar is trigger released.

Fat end of the bar is trigger fully pressed.

If you move the slider halfway between the skinny end and the fat end it's like a half pull.

Example: you create an action with two points, a starting point and an ending point. You pick the skinny end at the starting point (fully released). You pick the fat end at the ending point (fully pressed down). Now you go to your game and play back this action. The result will be the mod will start out fully released... and then over time it will "tween" the two values.. it will automatically calculate and do a gradual press of the trigger over time from fully released to fully pressed.

If you want a hard quick move from released to pressed you must add additional points.
 
modded matt

modded matt

Active Member
Since we want rapid fire on the right trigger when we pull and hold the right trigger, we must tell the rune to release the right trigger. so while you are holding it for the first 0.0-0.1 the controller reads the trigger pressed by your finger, then at 0.1sec, the rune releases the trigger from 0.1 to 0.2, then loops back to nothing (the beginning 0.0 to 0.1) but since your holding the trigger, it is actually pulled, then back to released then loop back again and again....

If we were doing this and assigning it to a tact switch, because we are not pressing the trigger, it would be the reverse, we would tell the controller to press the trigger by moving the slide bar to the right.
 
bonefisher

bonefisher

Well-Known Member
Ok by xbox default when pulling the RT it will fire always once and then the rune will take over ! Which 0.0s to 0.1 is at full released then firing at 0.1s to 0.2s full pulled trigger.. Since it is on a loop by default it will fire over and over...
Remember when using on RT you must feather the trigger bar in the rune to the skinny end on both sides of the rune...
 
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modded matt

modded matt

Active Member
No it is not! you are mistaken.

From 0.0 to 0.1 the mod chip is doing NOTHING, your finger is holding the trigger pot at high voltage, at 0.1 through 0.2, the mod chip is forcing the trigger voltage low to cause a released state of the trigger. When it loops back to 0.0, the mod chip is doing nothing from 0.0 threw 0.1 (because here your finger is doing the pressing)

When you feather the trigger bar to the left, this is released Period!!! the starting point at 0.1 the bar is all the way to the left meaning released at 0.2 or the ending point, the trigger is feathered all the way to the left also. meaning from 0.1 to 0.2 the trigger is released. I am releasing the trigger from 0.1 to 0.2.

The reason for this as already explained, you are holding the trigger with your finger, so the controller reads the trigger as pulled. This rune is for the trigger, not a tact switch. since the dawn of rapid fire on trigger, the objective is to force the trigger to released state.

It does not matter where you put it on the timeline, if you slide the trigger bar all the way to the left this is full released.
 
modded matt

modded matt

Active Member
OMG are you trolling me?

Odingalt has already told you above, when you slide the bar to the LEFT, the mod chip is full released. when you slide the bar to the RIGHT it is full pressed. I admit, I had to learn the Forge software, but I have been coding rapid fire programs for way to long to have to rethink it.

Forget Viking and anything to do with viking and look at the raw nature of rapid fire. you have a few constant factors with all rapid fire chips.
Rapid fire coding 101:
1. The player is pressing and holding the trigger.
2. The mod chip must cause a release.
3. The mod chip cannot stop the button press.
4. Because the trigger is a potentiometer, we can flood wiper to control its state.
 
bonefisher

bonefisher

Well-Known Member
Here is a test for you Matt to get off of what your thinking......Have rapid fire set at 1s to 1.1s plus I put a led at 1s to 1.1s to show you it is firing plus a led at 2s to finish then go on loop....the first fire you pull is xbox firing there one bullet and then mod will do the rest....you can play around tap and tap again then hold cuz it is on a loop and finish playing loop...reason you are fully releasing the slide bar in the rune for a rapid fire on Right Trigger is because you are supplying the voltage for firing in that time frame and the so called nothing space is the released trigger....Also on tac 4 made one but it can't fire that first bullet because it is not on the RT..... but you do have to have trigger slide bar all the way at the fat end on both sides of the rune to fire off the trigger and the nothing space is the release of the trigger...
 

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odingalt

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This is always a hard discussion to have with just words, thanks for posting the visual aide. I always find it hard to discuss the trigger actions by forum, sometimes you just wish you could sit down at a computer screen with the other dude and hammer it out.

I always just tell people that when the slider is all the way to the skinny end you are calling for a "forced release", meaning the modchip will force the trigger to be released (even if you are holding down the trigger).

Matt's example shows exactly that, the modchip will do a "forced release".
 
odingalt

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Just for the hardcore, here is an oscilloscope capture of a rapidfire macro that was assigned to playback upon the press of the right trigger...

Ok the scale is hard to read but imagine that the blue line going across from left-to-right is 0 volts. When you are just sitting there staring at your controller there is a small voltage on your trigger about 0.20 volts. Now at the beginning of the curve you can see the user pressed the trigger because the voltage starts going up... (as you press the trigger farther and farther, the voltage goes up more and more). Now, you can see a sharp dip down to zero. This is the modchip overriding your finger press and jacking the voltage down to 0 volts. The game thinks that you just released the trigger really quickly. Then a short time later the modchip gives up control and the voltage jumps back up.

So you can see here it looks like you are pressing the trigger really fast when in reality the modchip is just releasing really fast to break up your press for you... a hard concept to explain but this is a great chart to show what's going on for those who are into the electronics side of things:

In this example the customer slowly pulls the trigger and slowly releases the trigger, creating the two big camel humps.

Right Trigger rapidfire with slow varying pull.JPG
 
bonefisher

bonefisher

Well-Known Member
Well it looks like I have been backwards the whole time...I do APOLOGIZE to Matt! Glad he made a more understanding chart as well to Odins......Now you just made me a more dangerous and precise rapid fire maker.....Thanks!
 
modded matt

modded matt

Active Member
Thanks Odin, and thank you for your apology Bonfisher you are a good man. I am sorry if I came of a little pompous but like I said above this has always been the basis of rapid fire coding, and when you boil it down to raw code, its still all the same concept, Viking just happens to be a little more refined. I had to step away from the post for a day or two because I am not sure anything I would have said would have changed your mind. LOL I was thinking of breaking my warranty to scope this for you myself. I am glad Odin posted his oscope pics so I dont have to.

Semantics, It don't really matter, your mods still work just like they always have, your logic was just a little off base.

If the trigger was not a pot (xbox 360) or in the case of the xbox one a Hall sensor, it would be a completely different story which is why the buttons are coded differently.
 
bonefisher

bonefisher

Well-Known Member
Yeah I know all my stuff would work any way because I made them 50/50 but now I can get into my between shots where it is 90/10.... Wasn't able to work when I was backwards on it the whole time.
 
JIM WALKER

JIM WALKER

Active Member
Thank god you guys have sorted it, must admit I have always used Matt/Odin's method, just didn't understand why .... now I do, thanks to you guys discussing it ....
 
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