PC GAMING DRIVER

t4ius

Guest
just been wondering about this, since viking have modified the connection to a pc with the controller, is it possible for a driver to be released that allows u to play games the xbox controller without spending $70 dollars on a wireless receiver?
i know u can with a wired controller, but can u mimic the results or not?
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Nope it can't be done on this one, but this will be a feature of the Valhalla. ETA: who knows. But I keep coming up with ideas like this while I'm trying to develop the prototype.
 

PS3andCOD

Contributor
Well if your looking for features to include, why not make it completely compatible with wired controllers? Not only are they slightly cheaper, but batteries wouldn't be a problem, and they work first-party on the PC, and through an adaptor on PS3. Some people simply like them better...
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
BTW, the hardware will only be compatible with CG2 controllers. Making hardware compatible with different circuit boards = costs lots of money. Let's say I can produce a mod chip for $30 if I buy 3,000 of them at one time from the manufacturer. That's the most I can buy because frankly I'm a low volume operation in terms of electronics. Most companies (Apple, HTC, etc.) sell millions of their devices and save huge amounts of money by producing ONE design a million times. When you start to produce less than 10,000 of an electronic device, the hardware costs start to skyrocket.

Now let's say I have to build two mod chips, one for two different types of circuit boards. I can only buy 1,500 of each kind, and the manufacturer has to charge me more, because his machine tooling costs just went up, because he has to tool his machines TWICE, but he is producing less volume for each type. The price of producing the mod chip just went up 30-40%. Also, I now have to develop TWO prototypes instead of just one, and now I have to write software to support TWO mod chips instead of one. So instead of spending $15,000 in time and energy developing prototype and software, I am now spending more along the lines of $22,500 to develop the chip. Those costs have to be passed on to the customer as well as the increased hardware cost.

Now let's say customers want it to be compatible with 3-4 different kinds of hardware (wired, wireless, CG1, CG2, matrix, CL...) now not only is the manufacturer re-tooling 5-6 times, but I am only producing each design in a quantity of 300-400 each. Now I am paying $60 per mod chip. On top of that, I now have have to design 5-6 prototypes and my software has to support a huge range of different software. Plus this ends up causing me to have to train my employees to install the chip in 5-6 different controller shells. The cost of getting this thing to market just went from $30 a chip to almost $100 a chip.

I don't know about you, but it's already a stretch for customers to afford the Viking360 controllers at their current prices. I would love to actually develop a mod chip that brings the customer way more and costs the same or less as the existing Viking controllers. One big consideration in developing the Valhalla (and why it is taking so long) is cost control. I need to get the cost of the hardware literally down to $30 or less for each mod chip, because after you add in all my other overheads - investing $100,00 in several thousand mod chips without knowing if they will sell, new software development costs, prototype development costs, employee training (including hardware installs and training people how to deal with tech support questions with the new hardware)... this becomes a major operation.
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As far as PS3 you can see why the Intensafire folks only support two very specific controllers for their new PS3 mod chip - for all the same reasons I described - if they supported ALL PS3 controllers they would have to develop 3-4 different mod chips.. hell even educating the consumer on which mod chip to purchase is a nightmare, not everyone is as savvy as Viking customers as far as determining which circuit board they have in their controller :). So I'm putting my bet on what I know best which is the next XBOX 360 mod chip. I'm already going to make a big gamble releasing the next chip and I am in my comfort zone with XBOX 360.

Another problem is matrix aren't even produced any more. Cg1 aren't even produced any more. Everything we buy off the shelves is CG2 right now. So why develop a mod chip for an aging hardware that isn't produced any more? I know a lot of kids out there own matrix controllers but I got to be honest with you: after two years of gameplay on the same worn out pad, isn't it time to invest in an upgrade? You got to understand that in the world of electronics, 2 years is exceeding the life cycle of most products. Electronics deflate - that is, if I invest a bunch of money in mod chips and they sit on the shelf, they actually decrease in value as time goes by.

This makes running a business in electronics very challenging. I've invested probably $50,000-$60,000 in developing the Viking mod chip and its software and the whole business around that mod chip. But every day my mod chip becomes more obsolete - as my customers become more advanced in their use and requests of what the mod chip can do for them, the existing Viking hardware is starting to become more obsolete. So when it comes time to release the new hardware and start over, I gotta re-invest all that money again in the new hardware.

OF course maybe if I can find a way to extend the life of the existing hardware (re-sell to other mod shops?) maybe I can find a way to put some of that money towards the new product. It's a big game of strategy. Developing a kick-butt mod chip is easy. Finding a way to sell it to make money is a whole other story.
 

PS3andCOD

Contributor
You make complete sense, it's just unfortunate that it's so unfeasable to bring any sort of quality rapidfire to PS3... I was not aware of the new intensafire chip, I'll have to check it out. I didn't think multi-board chips were that hard since you got the current chip to work on 3 boards, but what do I know? I do realise how much cheaper it is to buy this type of thing in bulk, it would run up to huge costs if you started ordering different chips. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll bring out a wired controller revision simular to CG2 controllers.
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The biggest thing holding me back right now is that I won't quit my day job. My day job is there for life, it's a great job, it provides great benefits and I'll work there until I retire. There's no way I could make money selling mods for the next 30 years until I retire. So, I continue to work two jobs and rely on my wife and part time employees to make up the rest. But unfortunately that doesn't leave any time for new product development.

If I only worked at Viking360.com, I would spend all day coming out with new products and I probably would have a PS3 chip by now. :-( Since I only have limited time I put my focus on getting out the next 360 mod chip.
 

PS3andCOD

Contributor
OK, I just realised something. If you are going to make the valhalla work over a wire to the PC, it might work on PS3 anyways! Almost all USB gamepads etc work on PS3, so if it shows up on PC as a generic game pad it will probably work. If it shows up as a wired xbox controller, it should work with the adaptor thing. I guess we'll just have to see...
 

t4ius

Guest
another question, does anyone know if u can setup a bluetooth ps3 controller with a bluetooth compatible pc?
 

PS3andCOD

Contributor
t4ius said:
PS3andCOD said:
The recever is only $30. Just buy it.
in australia, it costs $70 dollars, and i'm not willing to spend that much for a cheap receiver

Well if it is actually $70, that's rediculous, it's more than a controller here

t4ius said:
another question, does anyone know if u can setup a bluetooth ps3 controller with a bluetooth compatible pc?
.

I don't think thay work over bluetooth, but PS3 controllers actually transfer the data over the charge cable if they are plugged in, so you can plug them into a PC with a mini-USB. I think you need special software to use it in-game though, you'll have to look it up. I have never tried it myself because I only play rts on the PC, and you need a mouse and keyboard for that...
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
PS3 is superior to XBOX 360 in terms of accessories, period. Don't get me wrong, I do ALL of my gaming on XBOX 360 and on the XBOX Live! service. But...

*The PS3 accepts a wide variety of third-party bluetooth devices, whereas the XBOX 360 will only accept wired devices or MS official or MS licensed (PRICEY!$$$) 'proprietary wireless' accessories.
*The PS3 has built-in wireless, while the XBOX 360 is still charging $100 for their wireless adapter (say what?)
*The PS3's on-line gaming service is FREE! XBOX Live Gold (12 month membership) is $59.95.
*PS3 built-in blu-ray player - is actually higher quality than many off the shelf blu-ray disc players. (XBOX 360 plays DVD's... hurray..)
*PS3's 'media center' supports all sorts of formats divx, xvid, mkt, etc... XBOX 360 'media center' is a little behind on supporting some formats...
*Some older versions of the XBOX 360 don't even have HDMI (say what???)
*PS3 has an internet browser with Flash capability. XBOX 360 has.. advertisements.
*PS3 controllers are dual shock six-axis and are wireless and recharge using a standard USB to mini-USB cable.. Microsoft controllers are large, heavy and require a special charging cable (PnC) and their battery packs are heavy as a bag of dog poop and they are not tilt sensitive...
*PS3 is an amazingly quiet system... the XBOX 360's DVD drive sounds like a jet aircraft with its throttle stuck open, I can't stand it. I own a $400 elite system and it's pathetic how loud it is...

I'm out of things to say at the moment but at the end of the day the PS3 hardware offers 5x the value of the XBOX 360 hardware. Unfortunately, XBOX 360 wins more market share in the U.S. and Sony wins more market share in the Asian countries. It just has to do with the fact that Sony has a stronghold over Asia while Microsoft has a stronghold here in the U.S. I.e. in Europe, Microsoft lost those anti-trust lawsuits... but in the U.S. they are allowed to flex their monopoly, which does help them sell more XBOX 360 systems.
 

t4ius

Guest
@ps3 and cod,
what software is it that i would need to use this. i'm too bothered to google now so a link would be helpful
 

odingalt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
t4ius said:
rage much there odin

Yeah I am a life-long MS-hater. It's my personal belief that the Microsoft Monoply actually retards the rate at which technology improves in this country. They are famous for being the world's leader in technology innovation when actually quite the opposite is true. In my opinion software development for Personal Computers is at least 8 years behind where it should be. The capability of the hardware and microprocessors far eclipses the capability of the software available. In part, I blame Microsoft for this lapse. They buy up start-up software companies with good ideas and table their copyrighted code until the sale of that particular product meets the Microsoft business plan for maximizing profits - not the desires of the marketplace. With no supply left, consumers are left to take what Microsoft gives them. It's the same way a traditional monopoly on commodities work - big oil, anyone?

Of course, who do you blame - the large monopoly who charges a customer as much as they can, for as little as the customer will accept for the price? Or do you blame the consumer, who is willing to receive as little as he does for the price he pays? I blame the consumer - that is, until the mega-monopoly ILLEGALLY uses their size to manipulate market forces and to manipulate the natural law of economic competition: supply and demand.

And then when Microsoft is finally brought up on charges of violating our monopoly laws, cases in point United States of America v. Microsoft Corporation and Netscape Communications Corp. v. Microsoft Corporation, what happens? Microsoft picks up the phone and calls in their favors with Microsoft lackeys in the political and judicial systems to get them acquitted. Too big. Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Bill Gates...

Of course back to one of the former points, I blame U.S. Consumers for the abomination we call the XBOX 360 console - the world's first virtual billboard system, spewing our advertisements direct into your living room 24/7. It is U.S. consumers that stood idly by while the RROD rate neared 30%, and it's U.S. consumers that continue to purchase 360 console systems despite their despicable and gross amounts of dashboard advertising, the sick amount of pay-for addons (hey thanks for buying Halo 3 for $60, if you want to continue using the multi-player feature, here are three $30 map packs you'll need to purchase - sorry we didn't tell you about that when you spent your first $60 on the game disc - but guess you'd better pay up now huh?), and their ridiculous on-line gaming service fees ($60/year? Are you kidding me? For that price, my friends and family could bundle together to rent a dedicated gaming server on a fiber backbone in the midwest).

But again, we can only blame ourselves... if you have ever slid your credit card through the machine at the checkout line at Walmart (don't get me started on Walmart) to purchase a Microsoft or an XBOX 360 product, you are guilty, too. That includes me. Guilty!
 

t4ius

Guest
@odin
do u have templates for those rages or do u just express your innermost hatred towards ms in a fury of flames. plus xbox is better than ps3, the ps3 controller gives me rsi :D
 
Top